DAVE DAVIES, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. I am Dave Davies. Right now we bear in mind singer-songwriter and actor Kris Kristofferson. He died Saturday on the age of 88. He was identified for his evocative songwriting. Here is a sampling.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “ME AND BOBBY MCGEE”)
JANIS JOPLIN: (Singing) I pulled my harpoon out of my soiled, crimson bandana. I used to be enjoying delicate whereas Bobby sang the blues. Windshield wipers slapping time, I used to be holding Bobby’s hand in mine. We sang each music that driver knew. Yeah. Freedom is simply one other phrase for nothing left to lose. Nothing do not imply nothing, honey, if it ain’t…
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN”)
JOHNNY CASH: (Singing) On a Sunday morning sidewalk, I am wishing, Lord, that I used to be stoned ‘trigger there’s one thing in a Sunday that makes the physique really feel alone.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “HELP ME MAKE IT THROUGH THE NIGHT”)
SAMMI SMITH: (Singing) Come and lay down by my aspect until the early morning gentle. All I am taking is your time. Assist me make it by means of the night time. I do not care what’s proper or fallacious.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “THE PILGRIM: CHAPTER 33”)
KRIS KRISTOFFERSON: (Singing) He is a poet. He is a picker. He is a prophet. He is a pusher. He is a pilgrim and a preacher and an issue when he is stoned. He is a strolling contradiction, partly fact and partly fiction, taking each fallacious course on his lonely manner again residence.
DAVIES: Some famous songs by Kris Kristofferson. Artwork critic Christine Arnold as soon as wrote of Kristofferson, he is the Marlboro Man with a young coronary heart. Kristofferson’s life took many colourful turns. Born in Brownsville, Texas, in a navy household, he turned a promising boxer in his 20s, then a Rhodes scholar in England and later a U.S. Military Rangers helicopter pilot in Germany. He turned down an appointment to show literature at West Level to take an opportunity at songwriting.
Kristofferson went to Nashville within the ’60s, and his first job within the music trade was working as a janitor at Columbia Information. There he met Johnny Money, who turned his good buddy, recorded songs Kristofferson had written and satisfied him to begin recording himself. Kristofferson’s rugged beauty and straightforward method made him a pure for movies. He acted in additional than 50 films, together with Martin Scorsese’s “Alice Would not Dwell Right here Anymore,” John Sayles’ “Lone Star” and the 1976 remake of “A Star Is Born” reverse Barbara Streisand.
Within the Nineteen Eighties, he was a part of the outlaw nation supergroup that included Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson and Johnny Money. Kristofferson was inducted into the Songwriters Corridor of Fame in 1985 and the Nation Music Corridor of Fame in 2004. Terry spoke with Kris Kristofferson in 1999. On the time, he’d launched an album titled “The Austin Periods,” which included new variations of his best-known older songs. They started with the music “Me And Bobby McGee.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “ME AND BOBBY MCGEE”)
KRISTOFFERSON: (Singing) Busted flat in Baton Rouge – heading for the trains, feeling almost pale as my denims. Bobby thumbed a diesel down simply earlier than it rained – took us all the way in which to New Orleans. I pulled my harpoon out of my soiled, crimson bandana. I used to be blowing unhappy whereas Bobby sang the blues. With them windshield wipers slapping time and Bobby clapping palms, we lastly sang up each music that driver knew. Freedom’s simply one other phrase for nothing left to lose. Nothing ain’t value nothing, nevertheless it’s free. Feeling good was straightforward, Lord, when Bobby sang the blues. Feeling good was ok for me, ok for me and Bobby McGee.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
TERRY GROSS: Kris Kristofferson, welcome to FRESH AIR.
KRISTOFFERSON: Thanks, Terry.
GROSS: Properly, let me ask you somewhat bit concerning the music that we simply heard, “Me And Bobby McGee.” What first impressed that music?
KRISTOFFERSON: Fred Foster, who owned Monument Information and Mix known as me up, stated he had a music title for me. It was “Me And Bobbie McKee.” I believed he stated McGee, however truly, there was a lady named Bobbie McKee, who was Boudleaux Bryant’s secretary, and so they had been in the identical constructing.
GROSS: Boudleaux Bryant wrote a whole lot of songs for The Everly Brothers.
KRISTOFFERSON: Sure, he did. You are proper on. And anyway, he stated, the hook is Bobbie McKee is a she, you realize? And I believed that sounded just like the worst thought I would ever heard of. However I needed to write down for – write one thing for him. I had not had something recorded since I would gone to work for his firm. And so I got down to write the music and hid from him for a number of months. And I went again into the – our studio up there at Mix with Billy Swan and made a demo of it. And all people appreciated the music.
GROSS: Essentially the most well-known line from the music is, freedom’s simply one other phrase for nothing left to lose. What impressed that line?
KRISTOFFERSON: Properly, that is what the music was actually about to me – was the double-edged sword, you realize, that freedom is. And after I wrote that, a few of my songwriter mates in Nashville advised me to take it out of the music, stated it was – that it did not match, that the remainder of the imagery was so actual and concrete that it was misplaced to place somewhat philosophical line in there.
GROSS: Inform me if I bear in mind appropriately. Did you’ve gotten a home that burned down at concerning the time you wrote this music?
KRISTOFFERSON: No. No. I had – I let you know what I had. I used to be dwelling in a condemned constructing on the time, and, you realize, the factor price me, I believe, $50 a month. And any individual had damaged into it in the course of the week that I used to be down within the Gulf of Mexico and trashed the place and stole what little I needed to steal. I bear in mind it was a really liberating feeling to me as a result of all the pieces was gone, and there was nowhere to go however up. I had additionally alienated my household on the time. My spouse had left me, and I used to be separated, you realize, from my children. And I believe I would been disowned by my mother and father by that point. And it was fairly liberating not having any expectations or something to reside as much as.
GROSS: How did Janis Joplin find yourself recording this music?
KRISTOFFERSON: Bobby Neuwirth taught Janis the music, I consider, and I believe he’d heard it when Roger Miller had recorded it. I first heard that she had sung the music after I got here again from – I would been down in Peru making a film with Dennis Hopper singing “Bob McGee,” as a matter of truth, within the movie. And any individual advised me she had sung it in a live performance. I believe it was in Nashville. After which later, Bobby launched me to her, and we lived out of her home for a couple of month or so. And we turned shut mates, however I by no means did hear her sing it. I by no means heard her tape of it until the day after she died.
DAVIES: Kris Kristofferson talking with Terry Gross, recorded in 1999. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RODNEY CROWELL SONG, “COME SUNDOWN”)
DAVIES: That is FRESH AIR. We’re remembering singer-songwriter and actor Kris Kristofferson by listening again to his 1999 interview. He died on Saturday.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: What yr did you first get to Nashville, and what was it like if you received there?
KRISTOFFERSON: I first went there in June of 1965 and was on my manner again from a three-year tour within the Military in Germany – and was on my approach to the profession course down at Fort Benning and from there to supposedly to show English, literature, at West Level. And since my navy obligation was already fulfilled, I made a decision I used to be going to get out of the Military and be a songwriter. I had spent a few weeks there simply on tour. I imply, simply, you realize, I used to be on depart and received proven round to among the songwriter periods and received a glimpse of the life. I’ve at all times felt like I used to be actually fortunate to have been uncovered to Nashville at the moment as a result of I am positive it is totally different now.
GROSS: There should’ve been some form of life-changing thought that occurred to you, because you’d been on this navy profession observe. Your father had been a navy profession man. Was it a sudden change of coronary heart or what that made you suppose I am not going to show at West Level, I will strive writing songs in Nashville?
KRISTOFFERSON: Properly, I had by no means supposed to make the navy a profession or the tutorial life. I at all times thought that I’d – I hoped that I’d be a author and be capable of have a artistic life, you realize? After which, properly, after I graduated from faculty – I went to Oxford for a few years, after which I went within the navy for nearly 5 years. And by that point, I had a household and, you realize, a spouse and a daughter. And I believe I type of despaired of ever making my dwelling as an artist till I went to Nashville. I went there as a result of in my final yr within the Military, or in Germany, I fashioned a band and began writing songs once more. I would been writing songs all my life however began actually escaping into it over the last yr I used to be over there in Germany – and went to Nashville to attempt to pedal the songs.
After which after I received there, it was so totally different from any life that I would been in earlier than, simply hanging out with these individuals who stayed up for 3 or 4 days at a time, you realize, and nights and had been writing songs on a regular basis. I believe I wrote 4 songs in the course of the first week I used to be there. And it was simply so thrilling to me. It was like a lifeboat, you realize? It was like my salvation.
GROSS: How did you begin making films? Did you suppose, sooner or later, I will act?
KRISTOFFERSON: Once I began performing my very own songs, the primary place I ever performed was on the Troubadour membership in Los Angeles. It was form of a hangout like The Bitter Finish in New York. And I believe on the time there was extra individuals in search of new blood as a result of I received a whole lot of gives simply off of performing there. And ultimately, Harry Dean Stanton gave me a script. I did not even know he was an actor on the time (laughter). I believed he simply sang within the bar there on the Troubadour. However he helped me do a display take a look at for a movie that was known as “Cisco Pike.” And I received to place my music in it. And I used to be the lead in it, in a movie with Gene Hackman and Karen Black and Harry Dean. And I simply went on from there.
GROSS: Properly, I would like to shut with one other music out of your new CD, “The Austin Periods.” And it is a music known as “The Pilgrim: Chapter 33.” Now, this music is quoted in “Taxi Driver.” The Cybill Shepherd character, Betsy, buys the file for Travis, the taxi driver performed by Robert De Niro. And she or he says that he reminds her of the character within the music, and she or he quotes the road, he is a strolling contradiction, partly fact and partly fiction. How did the music find yourself in “Taxi Driver”?
KRISTOFFERSON: I do not know. I at all times felt like that was the nicest factor that Marty Scorsese ever did to me, you realize?
GROSS: I assume you had already labored with him in “Alice Would not Dwell Right here Anymore.”
KRISTOFFERSON: I labored – yeah. Yeah, however I did not realize it was going to be in that one. And, God, he had – there’s De Niro holding up my album.
GROSS: (Laughter).
KRISTOFFERSON: They usually’re quoting me like Bob Dylan or one thing. It was – I nonetheless suppose that is one of many sweetest issues I’ve ever seen anyone do for anyone within the enterprise.
GROSS: And who did you write the music about?
KRISTOFFERSON: Properly, I wrote it about myself and about a whole lot of mates of mine that I believed had been, you realize – Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Chris Gantry and Johnny Money and all people I knew on the time. And a whole lot of us had been 33 on the time. That is why it is known as “Chapter 33” – and Dennis Hopper. I bear in mind after we had been down in Peru, each time that you’d inform any individual you had been 33 years previous, they’d say, oh, the age of Christ. In order that type of match the sample of it.
GROSS: So had been you referring in any respect to the way you and lots of people you knew had been form of self-invented?
KRISTOFFERSON: Ooh, sure, sure – partly fact and partly fiction. You already know, I’ve at all times felt that I and most of the individuals I like are figments of our personal creativeness. I at all times felt that Willie Nelson, Muhammad Ali had been significantly profitable at that, at imagining themselves and dwelling as much as what they imagined themselves to be.
GROSS: And also you’re…
KRISTOFFERSON: I bear in mind after I first noticed Muhammad Ali, he was Cassius Clay. He was somewhat, skinny, gentle heavyweight over in Rome, and he was telling all people he was going to be the largest, one of the best. You already know, he was the following Joe Louis. And he imagined himself proper up into that.
GROSS: Do you’re feeling you probably did that, too?
KRISTOFFERSON: I believe I did. Once I suppose again to after I first was writing my first songs – you realize, like, after I was 11 years previous, down in Brownsville, Texas – I believe that I imagined myself into a reasonably full life after that. I used to be definitely not geared up by God to be a soccer participant, however I received to be one. And I received to be a ranger and a paratrooper and a helicopter pilot, you realize, and a boxer and a whole lot of issues that I do not suppose I used to be constructed to do. I simply imagined them.
GROSS: Kris Kristofferson. His new CD, “The Austin Periods,” options new variations of his best-known songs, together with the music that is quoted in “Taxi Driver.”
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “TAXI DRIVER”)
ROBERT DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) You wish to go to a film with me?
CYBILL SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) I’ve to return to work now.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) I do not imply now. I imply, like, one other time, although.
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) Positive. You already know what you remind me of?
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) What?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) That music by Kris Kristofferson.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) Who’s that?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) The songwriter. He is a prophet and a pusher, partly fact, partly fiction, a strolling contradiction.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) You saying that about me?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) Who else would I be speaking about?
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) I am no pusher. I by no means have pushed.
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) No, no, simply the half concerning the contradiction. You might be that.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “THE PILGRIM: CHAPTER 33”)
KRISTOFFERSON: (Singing) He is a idiot, and he is a liar. He is a prophet. He is a dreamer. He is a pilgrim and a preacher and an issue when he is stoned. He is a strolling contradiction, partly true, principally fiction, choosing out the fallacious course on his lonely manner again residence.
DAVIES: Kris Kristofferson on his music “The Pilgrim: Chapter 33.” He spoke with Terry Gross in 1999. He died Saturday on the age of 88. Developing, John Powers evaluations the brand new Apple TV+ movie “Wolfs,” starring George Clooney and Brad Pitt. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAMSEY LEWIS TRIO’S “THE IN CROWD”)
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